Two points of clarification and self-support:
1) When I am speaking to another, I must Stand One and Equal to my words and to the other. If I am pointing something out, I must make sure that it is without blame and separation. Because even if the point I am making is accurate, it will not go through if I am projecting a reaction towards the other. The other will knowingly or unknowingly pick up on the resonance from where I am speaking, the blame and will not be able to hear the words as support – even if they are. The Support is gone and the moment has become about blame instead. In that moment the point that is to be dealt with is not what the other did or did not do or say, but the fact that I am taking something personally – otherwise it is a point of abdicating Responsibility for myself by wanting the other to take Responsibility for my reaction – and that is not acceptable.
2) I must bring everything back to myself. To Stand One and Equal with another, I must stand in their shoes, experience what they are experiencing, but most importantly, I must take Responsibility for myself, what I am Allowing in and as myself.
See if I continue to speak when I am reacting and taking what the other is saying personally, I am not taking Responsibility for myself and by continuing to speak, I have actually verified the experience as real, yet dealing with it through ignoring and suppressing it or even speaking from it. It will then be the reaction that is the directive principle of what I am saying and thus the words will become useless in any other meaning they might have had.
This is what I saw that happened. I also refer to this post written by Viktor: http://viktorhansemanuel.se/?p=307
Viktor is practicing sharing himself in our chats. I have seen it as such that he is not used to sharing himself. Here I am talking about sharing anything, not something in particular (this was a self-defense towards what I perceived as Viktor’s allegations towards me for interrogating him and only always asking him if he is reacting: I STOP) – bringing it back to Self – alright: I have reacted to what I perceived as Viktor being closed off, only sharing the big lines, the general points and specifically focused on what he was doing through-out his day. I have judged this as being deliberately hiding, but I have also seen it as Viktor simply not being used to opening points up in detail. What I have seen within this is that it is common that men share like this, the big lines, while women have a more natural ability to open everything up. I have experienced that this has worked quite well some times, where Viktor was even saying that he was vulnerable and intimate within his sharing. I have seen it as an exercise. So what I have done to Support this, has been asking him questions to open up. This I have done directly based on the perception that he required Support to open up, that he was not used to opening up. I have also seen within this that I have to in this position be very careful not to take anything personally, because when I have, I have not been able to listen and Support effectively . What also has happened in those moments is that I become unsure of what I am seeing, if it is a projection or if I am actually seeing something. I have also perceived, specifically based on past experiences with Viktor and also with other men that he will be inclined to say: ‘Nothing’ if I ask him what is going on and then only days or maybe weeks later reveal that a lot was going on in that moment. This is something that I have taken personally based on the fear that he is not being open and honest with me, that I cannot trust that he will share himself. I have also feared that if there really is nothing going on, how can I then support him to share himself? Is it then my responsibility to find what is behind? Am I afraid of the silence or even that we get stuck?
So – what happened as I see it in that moment was that Viktor was speaking. I was deliberately not saying anything and merely asking questions to open up the points. I was secretively judging Viktor for only sharing the general lines of what he had done through-out the day. One point is that I don’t believe that that is all that is going on. Another is that I fear that this is true and then compare myself to Viktor as less. I also see a point where I have expected more of him according to my perception of him lying or keeping things secret. I have defined Viktor as ‘someone who manipulates and keep secrets’ and without having taken Self-Responsibility for this, I have simply allowed this to ‘stay alive’ and thus have been colored by it in our conversations.
So one point is that I do not trust that he will share when something is going on. That he pretends to be stable when he is not. Another is that I fear the reflection back to myself in comparison if there really is nothing going on.
So – Viktor was speaking about his day and he was saying that not much really happened, he did not experience much and did not have any reactions. (when I read how he perceived me in that moment, it seems like he assumed that I am deliberately asking him if he was reacting, while what I experienced was that he himself was pointing out that he was not reacting without me asking). Again this might be a point of resonant pick-up where he is seeing something coming from me without being consciously aware of it and then reacting to that. This is all very con-fusing if there is no clarity between what is said and what is experienced. Anyways, what I heard him saying was: ‘I am not making a big deal out of it.’ – In that moment I took this sentence personally from two perspectives; 1) that he is referring to me making a big deal out of things (which I actually agree with) and 2) that he says it indirectly and very subtly – which was what I reacted to the most. I then, instead of either addressing this directly or at least stop up and sort myself out in terms of reacting, started asking him; ‘What do you mean by not making a big deal out of things’? What I wanted, was for him to say/realize that he was blaming me indirectly for making a big deal out of things. I was attempting with this new method of showing instead of telling that I can see now, through investigating the point for myself and through reading that Viktor perceives this as interrogation, that I missed the point.
Two things here:
1) By not taking Direction of my reaction and then the point of assisting Viktor to see what he was doing, I was wanting him to take Responsibility for my reaction, thus abdicating self-responsibility and self-direction in that moment.
2) I abused the supporting situation which I have perceived as us practicing the point of Viktor sharing himself – this is probably what I see as the most unacceptable in this whole point. Because I know from my own experience how fucked up it is when I am opening up to someone and they are using it against me or abusing a situation that is agreed to as a point of Support. Because the person that is being ‘supported’ can be trapped in feeling obligated to answer because of this agreement.
What happened next was that Viktor became very quiet and withdrawn, he was looking down to the left and I interpreted that as him being emotional. I asked him; ‘What is going on’? – Another point I see now is that I was perceiving what I was doing as supportive, using a specific way of speaking that I used to use and that I have seen others use, but I did not realize where I was actually coming from. Then Viktor was saying some things that I unfortunately not can recall the specific words of, but the gist of it was; ‘we are supposed to be gentle with each other, no tell each other’. ‘I am not going to speak with you, when you are like this’, I don’t want to have these chats’ and then he said; ‘I don’t want to attack you, I don’t want to defend myself’, I want to enjoy myself’. At this point we were speaking over each other. I was saying but I don’t think he heard it; ‘I am not angry, I am desperate’, ‘so don’t attack me, so don’t defend yourself’. Again I reacted by taking it personally because I perceived that he was indirectly blaming me. Then he ended the conversation and sent me this message; ‘calm down, and let’s chat when you are not reacting.’ – I was angry at that stage and I was blaming him for this whole situation, so I closed of Skype and I wrote everything down as I experienced it in the moment.
Here is what I wrote:
I feel like you are manipulating me– You say things indirectly to blame me like ‘I am not making a big deal out of it’ and ‘I don’t want to make a big deal out of things’ specifically referring to that that is what I am doing – but you are not saying that Directly and instead justify yourself, indirectly blaming me for ‘making a big deal’ – if you were to Support me to show me that I am making a big deal, you can say that Directly or not at all – I picked up on that and that is what you saw as the reaction when I started asking you – The reason I was asking you was to show you what you are doing instead of telling you. But I reacted instead and it became unclear.
Here it is clear that I am blaming Viktor for indirectly blaming me. But there is also something interesting within this where it is looping in on itself, because as it turned out, I was doing exactly the same – blaming him indirectly and not actually supporting him.
I experience that when you are asked directly you will not answer directly. Sometimes however you will only explain what is going on when you are asked directly.
Here I blame him for me having to take responsibility for him sharing what is going on as I explained above. This is based on the perception of Viktor deliberately not sharing and then blaming him for me having to pull things out of him.
It makes me extremely uncomfortable and self-protective to not know if I am being manipulated when you are saying: ‘no I am not blaming you’ because it is like you have the prerogative to ‘not react’ and thereby we have made a consensus that I am the one ‘always’ reacting. It pissed me off when you said that you ‘don’t want to have ‘these kinds of chats’ because within that you are generalizing and placing that and me into a fixed definition. And that is exactly blame.
I am allergic to the experience of being manipulated, but I realize that this is a point of abdicating Self-Responsibility because I am only able to be manipulated if I have allowed it in the first place and besides that, by accepting this, I am blaming the other for my experience of having abdicated myself and being powerless. I have then justified my right to defend myself, which is what I see Viktor interpreting as being angry. The other point of me always being the one reacting, I do however see as valid, but it is something that we have both participated in equally, accepting that I ‘always’ react.
When I have been asking you questions these last days it has been to Support you to express yourself. I experience that you are not used to sharing yourself and thereby when you do share yourself, it will be in general terms and not actually opening up what is going on. Maybe there is really nothing going on, but I don’t know what to do, besides keep asking. You then say that it is ‘small’ points but isn’t that the whole point of sharing? That nothing is too small?
I can see here that we have misunderstood each other on this point, when I read what Viktor wrote about the situation. As far as I understand what he is saying, he perceives that I only want to share ‘bad things’ and dwell on small reactions and that he is reacting to this. As I see it, we have been practicing him opening up and communicating, something I perceived that we agreed upon.
Two things here:
1) There is a point of me wanting him to share reactions, because if there is nothing, it means that I am ‘bad’. I am more comfortable when we are equal in this. This is totally unacceptable because it means that I want to pull him down to my ‘level’ to justify myself.
2) This first point makes everything else invalid and unclear and it places me as untrustworthy and I am not able to trust what I see – when I see that I can support Viktor to open up. Because besides this first point, I have actually experienced that we were effective in starting to open up and trusting each other and also that I was able to Support Viktor. This makes me ashamed and unsure of myself.
When I was talking about asking me how my day went and pointed out that you are doing the same as your mother, that was a point of blame or critique, because I judge that question as being irrelevant and I don’t want to answer it because mostly I have done nothing I want to share – it is the same. I find it monotonous to just talk about ‘then I did that and then I did that’ – I do not see that as sharing. But that does not mean that there is not a point to it – I feel like you are not even willing to look at this point, because you feel that I am blaming you – that is why I was saying that when I do not Stand Equal with you, it does not work, everything becomes unclear. I experience that you shut down communication very fast and retract into yourself instead of sharing what is going on.
Here we have clearly again misunderstood each other at the point of what sharing is. To me sharing is opening up what is going on with you, not what you have been doing. I have kind of perceived Viktor as a little slow in this point, actually seen myself as superior to him and placed him in a position of someone that needed help to open up. He seems to have on the other hand perceived my version of sharing as dwelling on bullshit and reactions. There is also a point here where I clearly have had an issue with what I have perceived as ‘trivial’ questions, but actually behind it felt pressured, because I actually did not want to share what is going on with me. I have also experienced that when Viktor asks me and I do share, he does not reply and then I don’t know how he is reacting to what I am saying. This reveals to me, that I am defining myself according to how another reacts to me, and when there is no reaction or no clear reaction, I cannot do that and thus I don’t know ‘who I am’ or ‘who’ I am supposed to be.
I feel like I am the one who has to keep clarity and there is definitely something within this that is a reminiscence of how I experienced myself with you the first time we were together. But it is also something that has happened a lot with my mother and I experience myself being allergic to it. I have experienced this with boyfriends, that they will flip things on me and manipulate – and it makes me angry.
This is a point where I have actually held Viktor as prisoner of the past and defined him according to how he was or how I saw him in the past. That is exactly what I have blamed him for doing. On the other hand, a point is revealed where it is shown where my reaction and justification thereof is coming from. I have experienced this in previous relationships and specifically with my mother. Thus there is a projection and an expectation within me that this will happen again and that I will have to protect myself against it. Another important point here is for me too look at where I have done the same – and I have.
Two points here:
1) What I realize is that the clarity is not the responsibility of the other and that I am not able to get to clarity within the conversation or reaction. It is writing like this, where I place myself Equal and One to the situation and to the other, describing exactly what was going on, without judgment or blame towards the other or myself
2) Another point is that the anger I experience in this, is caused by the desperation of being manipulated by another and because I have made a rule that the other is always more than me, I have made myself a prisoner of the manipulation – Thus in the situation I become unsure about myself and feel that I must believe what they are saying. I feel that this is something the other is forcing upon me and thus don’t see or take Self-Responsibility.
What makes me angry is that you stand on the point of ‘I am just Here Breathing’ and ‘I don’t react’ and then you say something like ‘I want to enjoy myself’ which is indirectly placing blame on me for making the chat unenjoyable for you. If you were at least blaming me directly; ‘why are you making the chat unenjoyable, it would be a lot easier for me to direct the point’. There is nothing I hate more than indirect manipulation, ‘it was just a joke’ kind of stuff. I feel like I have a right to be angry when I cannot trust that you will take Responsibility for yourself. I think in the end it was my tone of voice you reacted to, that I was desperate – you defined that as angry and you do not question your definition. You do not see what I experience, yet it seems that you believe you sees it. That makes it dangerous as I see it.
This is very specifically related to the previous point – where I have (and maybe Viktor is participating in this too) made rules about Viktor being clear and not reacting and thus I am expecting him to be more than me, because he is ‘breathing’ and ‘being here’ – I automatically accept myself as less and find a comfort in that, but when that trust in the other as authority is compromised, I panic. This is obviously unacceptable for several reasons. But I am surprised when I look at it, it is still not clear. I am still not sure whether I can trust that Viktor is not reacting when he say he is not. Why is that important? Because that is what I have placed and directed myself according to. It is showing me a point of Self-Abdication of Responsibility and Self-Trust. I am basically in the above quote making Viktor responsible for me Directing myself. On the one hand I am tacitly expecting him to be ‘fair’ and ‘clear’ at all times, thus accepting myself as less and on the other hand expecting the exact opposite of not being able to trust him, of him being abusive and thus looking for this in his words, believing that I have the responsibility to decode everything, thus placing myself as superior.
Often when I tell you that words are specific, you seem to react to that instead of seeing what I am showing you.
This is something I have experienced several times, when I ask Viktor what he means with something. That when I say that words are specific, it is like he is reacting to me pointing this out as a defense towards protecting a self-dishonesty. But this is definitely a point of blame as I am clearly focused on what he does and says instead of bringing the point back to Self. When I have now read what Viktor wrote about this, I see that he experiences that I am interrogating him. Yet there is still a point where I am unclear, because I still react with anger towards what I see as Viktor not being willing to see himself. I read in his words, both in the Self-Forgiveness and in the post, that he is still blaming me, but being unwilling to see that – he sees it as justified. He sees and believes he is correct when he sees that I am interrogating him. He does not see that this is a perception, based on him reacting – specifically something we have talked about in relation to his mother and how he sometimes experiences me doing the same as what his mother does.
What I find dangerous within this is that we both seem to agree that he is more clear in seeing himself. What I also see, is that we have two patterns running where we project past relationship-experiences into this: His being, being interrogated by his mother and her telling him things by deliberately pretending that she does not know the answer – I actually see that that is what I was doing, the point of seeing what was going on, but I had the idea that he was to figure it out for himself (probably as his mother did). Mine being, accepting my mother to manipulate me and to twist things and me accepting the responsibility for the blame.
So fascinating – that all of this seems to stem from:
1) Projecting past relationship-experiences into this: Reveals that we define relating to other people according to how we were brought up. Both of us being allergic to this, but at the same time still expecting every relationship to be the same and something that we must fight and defend ourselves against.
2) Both points stem from us having allowed our mothers to Direct and control us through indirectly and subtle manipulation. This reveals that there is a abdication of Self and Self-Responsibility where we still blame our mothers, but at the same time have accepted the control our mothers have had over us. I suddenly see Viktor’s experience much more clear, because now I see that it is exactly like mine. It stems from years and years of having accepted his mother’s invalidation of him. I then stand as the point for him of not Accepting that any more, whether I am actually doing the same or whether he is perceiving that I am doing the same. And it is the same the other way around.
Okay – so now that is cleared up. I see where it is coming from. There is however one point that is still not clear to me, because when I look inside me, I still blame Viktor. So that is what I require to take care of, before I can let this point go and Trust that I will Direct myself. When I started writing this, it was from a starting-point of wanting to defend myself against what Viktor wrote. I found it unfair that he was making his version public and thus when people read it, they will believe that his version is the only version. That is one point. The other point is that I do not experience him clearing the point in Equality, because he is still indirectly blaming me and directly saying that he is not. He is doing that by justifying his experience and what I was doing instead of taking into account how I was experiencing myself. He is still angry with me, yet claims that he is not. Then I wrote this from the starting-point of showing ‘how it is done’ – of showing him how it is possible to Stand Equal with another, to understand what was going on, not from a personal experience, but objectively. I wanted to show that I am the better person here, because I can see what I am doing and take Responsibility for that. What I really wanted to do was defend myself and blame him. As I was writing, I kept holding myself to the point of objectivity and in that process actually got to understand what was going on – but as I am ending it, I still don’t want to talk to Viktor. I still blame him for secretively blaming me and for not taking Responsibility for that. I also want to end the Agreement and my base justification is that I cannot trust Viktor. He will not share with me; he will expose me publically and place his version as the correct version. I don’t trust him. When we had the fight at his place, he wrote to me after taking responsibility for his position in that. That made me feel safe, that I could trust him. Why is this so important to me? The only reason I can see is that I have build myself up around not being able to trust others and at the same time having the desire to, like a naïve expectation and insisting that I am supposed to be able to trust other. That the most important thing is that I can trust him, not that he can trust me or that I can trust myself. There is definitely an expectation that he will abuse me through this superiority and at the same time this belief that I am supposed to trust him and thereby place myself in a position of powerlessness and blame – this is how I see it, coming from a child’s acceptance of a parent’s authority. From the relationship between child and parent, where the child has to trust the parent no matter what in order to survive, because the parent is the responsible one and the child is powerless in this world. Now this reveals that this system is fucked up – that parents abuse that authority and the trust of the child for their own benefit. This is what I see us reacting to – both of us. And since it is a point that comes up again and again, we have not cleared that for ourselves in relation to that relationship. I for one haven’t and that is clearly shown in how I broke the agreement I had with myself of applying Self-Forgiveness on that whole mother point that opened up. What I can see that I can do now, is to place these points of blame towards Viktor in front of me and take Responsibility for them within myself.
When I am reading what Viktor wrote, I immediately expect that he will blame me and that he will hide the point of blame. By doing that I fear (and possibly accept) that I am to blame. I am thus not able to read what he has written without taking it personally and thus when I read it, I don’t see clearly, I don’t see him and where he is coming from. I am also not able to assist him in seeing that he is blaming me (if that is what he does) because I have already conditioned myself within it. So this is something I will push myself to do. Something I find interesting in the first part is that Viktor perceived the situation as fighting, while I did not. That implies that we have different definitions of what fighting is. Okay – what I am seeing here is that Viktor experiences the same desperation and powerlessness as I did – and within that abdicates Self-Responsibility, just like I did. Therein lays the justification for blame. A very important point is the point where he is actually correct, but I fear to face myself within that and then react with anger as a self-defense instead of actually allowing myself to hear what he is saying. But what I have not clearly realized is where Viktor is coming from in relation to anger and fights. It has been brought up before that he has an immense fear of people yelling at him and I see that we are perceiving that situation so differently. I prefer the air being cleared by expressing what is going on. I absolutely agree with him that fights lead nowhere, but when there is a fear, a judgment and a resentment towards anger, that is not effective either.
Because he did not see me in this, he did not see where I was coming from and thus he was taking the situation personal as well. This is again blame and it is subtle and manipulative and I am the one doing it, right now, in writing. At the same time it does not mean that there is no point to what I am saying, but that all becomes irrelevant when there is blame. So if Viktor was to read this, he would see the blame only and not see the Support in seeing himself. I also realize that Viktor has a fear of not pleasing me, which only comes to light in his writings. Here there is another point of subtle blame, which is probably only seen by me because I know what I mean by it. What I mean is that he says there is nothing to share, yet share in his writings. That indicates that he doesn’t trust me, like I don’t trust him – and actually I understand that. This is exactly the sort of thing that I think would be cool to be able to share, but I understand the point of vulnerability within it as well. The thing is though that I had no idea that he experienced this and therefore difficult for me to take into account either way. Also the point of him wanting to fix the situation is something that I did not realize. It is also fascinating that it is me he wants to fix and that it is me he wants to stop. I can see that he sees the Agreement differently than I do. And he sees the point of anger differently than I do. When I read what he is writing, he seems to experience that when I have gotten angry, the Agreement is over. That means that the Agreement from his perspective is not standing on solid ground and that it is only there when it is easy and enjoyable. That must be quite uncomfortable, to constantly have to keep it on a straight path. Something else that is fascinating is that Viktor feels guilty and that he is not allowed to share himself. At the same time he says that these experiences are not relevant, he shares them in writing, but they are not relevant to share with me. Okay – what I see that I am doing with Viktor, is basically what I am doing with myself; being hard. And he reacts as I react to myself, with resistance and anger. I also see this point that if I take Responsibility for my participation within this, it means that he can manipulate me and blame me and not be accountable, because I admitted that I was wrong. I actually have lots of points wherein I could assist Viktor to see himself, but I have removed that option from myself by abdicating Self-Responsibility. What I have been doing within this writing is 1) actually start seeing and realizing where Viktor is coming from, but removing the ‘need’ to defend and protect myself and 2) own up to the points of abuse and Self-Abdication so that I can clearly Direct myself to Stand Equal.
These are the essential points that I am required to take responsibility for within myself (the sub-points are the points I see behind each point):
1) I indirectly and subtly blame another – and I judge myself for this
2) Judging the point of sharing daily stuff
a) I have kind of perceived Viktor as a little slow in this point, actually seen myself as superior to him and placed him in a position of someone that needed help to open up.
3) Not trusting Viktor
a) Judging him according to past experiences
b) Conditioning and acceptance of not being able to trust others based on my relationship with my mother
4) Reacting to Viktor talking about being stable
a) Comparing myself to Viktor – that I am not good enough because I am not stable
b) I want to pull him down to my ‘level’ to justify myself.
5) Expecting Viktor to be stable and responsible
a) Having accepted the authority of a parent and in that abdicating Self-Authority
6) By not taking Direction of my reaction and then the point of assisting Viktor to see what he was doing, I was wanting him to take Responsibility for my reaction, thus abdicating self-responsibility and self-direction in that moment.
7) I abused the supporting situation
8) I am only able to be manipulated if I have allowed it in the first place
a) By accepting this, I am blaming the other for my experience of having abdicated myself and being powerless. I have then justified my right to defend myself.
9) Accepting that I ‘always’ react.
10) I am defining myself according to how another reacts to me, and when there is no reaction or no clear reaction, I cannot do that and thus I don’t know ‘who I am’ or ‘who’ I am supposed to be.
11) Projecting past relationship-experiences into this
a) Still blame my mother, but at the same time have accepted the control my mother had over me.
I will be back to take these points up because that is the points that I require myself to sort out to Direct myself.